In Episode 59 of The Incredible Machines podcast, hosts Jon Oliff and Luke Holden are joined by Les Owen, a Durban-based management consultant, training facilitator, negotiator, mediator, and arbitrator at Owen, Adendorff & Associates.
Les has worked for decades in negotiation, conflict resolution, labour relations, leadership, and business management. His career has spanned from negotiating with emerging Black trade unions in a defining period of South African history to consulting for companies such as Coca-Cola, Shell, BP, Mercedes-Benz and Toyota. He talks about his experience in the Soweto uprising in 1976, South Africa's historic 1994 elections, the development of dispute resolution in the country, and lessons learned from both success and business failure.
The discussion regarding the fact that successful negotiation relies on timing, body language, clothing, seating, listening, and emotional awareness can all have an effect on the outcome before the official discussion has even started.
Whether you're managing clients, selling an idea, or navigating a difficult personal conversation, this episode offers practical lessons for becoming a more thoughtful and effective communicator.
One of Les Owen's practical lessons is to avoid negotiating with someone hungry, since in his own dealings during labour negotiations, proposals usually got a better response after lunch.
“The best time to meet anybody is within the first half hour after they have eaten.”
The lesson is simple: when a proposal is being considered, the response it receives can be quite different according to the physical and emotional condition of that person.
Les believes that persuasion is a general ability that includes selling and negotiation and that it demands more consideration of the individual, their emotions, and their desire to have their views heard.
When someone enters a negotiation feeling angry or frustrated, Les recommends encouraging them to speak. Asking questions allows them to release what they are carrying and gives the negotiator an opportunity to understand their concerns.
This reflects Stephen Covey’s principle of seeking first to understand before trying to be understood. Listening is not simply good manners. It is a practical persuasion technique.
Les says that body language should not be regarded merely as something to interpret; it can also be used on purpose to affect the way other people see a situation.
“The more you can say in a negotiation without saying anything, the better.”
When negotiating as part of the trade unions, Les and his coworkers would convey messages without speaking by looking at the way they entered a room, the duration of a meeting, and even by leaving documents on the table. Leaving files on the table might indicate a sense of trust, while rushing quickly back from a meeting could show that a proposal was unreasonable.
Les also talks about We Were Always Here, a book which honours black inventors throughout the African diaspora, and which disputes the idea that innovation has mainly been driven by white men.
One of the most important lessons for him from the research was the fact that people who had only a limited formal education were able to achieve a great deal in the face of huge social and economic difficulties. The book is meant to encourage young people by proving that creativity, intelligence, and innovation can arise regardless of one's background.
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way,
and the only way, it does not exist.”
~ Friedrich Nietzsche (one of Leslie Owen’s favourite quotes)
Cremora’s “It’s Not Inside, It’s on Top” Advertisement: Les selected this classic South African advertisement because it captures the cooperative and competitive nature of relationships. It also demonstrates the value of using fewer words, communicating through tone and context and avoiding the instinct to tell someone directly that they are wrong.
Cremora’s “It’s Not Inside, It’s on Top” Advertisement:
Les Owen’s career demonstrates that negotiation is not about overpowering another person or proving that your argument is correct. It is about preparation, timing, listening, and understanding how people respond under pressure.
Whether you're negotiating a business agreement, managing a difficult client or resolving conflict within a family, the principle remains the same: talk less, listen more and pay attention to the person before trying to solve the problem.
Who is Les Owen?
Les Owen is a Durban-based management consultant, training facilitator, negotiator, mediator and arbitrator at Owen, Adendorff & Associates. His work focuses on negotiation, conflict resolution, labour relations, leadership, and business management.
What is Owen, Adendorff & Associates?
Owen, Adendorff & Associates is a South African management consulting and training firm. Its work includes human resources, industrial relations, employment equity, leadership, business strategy, negotiation, and workplace training.
What is the Incredible Machines podcast?
The Incredible Machines podcast is a thought leadership series produced by Tim Africa, featuring conversations with visionary entrepreneurs, leaders, and changemakers from across the continent.
Where can I listen to the full episode with Les Owen?
You can listen on all major platforms including:
🎧 Spotify
🍎 Apple Podcasts
🌐 Tim Africa Podcast Hub
Les Owens LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leslie-owen-b9a50526/
Owen Adendorff & Associates Website: https://www.owenaden.com/
Purchase the We Are Always Here book via this link: https://wewerealwayshere.com/
TED Talk on Being Wrong – Kathryn Schulz: https://youtu.be/QleRgTBMX88?si=dksQ1RuVptUASdon